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Lelouch32
11-01-2010, 11:16 PM
Sorin Markov: Why Ain’t He Played

By: Corlando

Ladies and gentlemen; it is time for this week’s edition of Cards n’Flux. Corlando here, your hopefully funny and quirky guide through the world of Magic the Gathering, the card game that we all love so very much. Anyway, with the end of the Scars of Mirrodin Game Day, I feel I can finally step away from the new set, having given it quite a bit of attention over the past month. This then brings up the question of what will this week’s article be about. Today’s topic will be Sorin Markov, the vampiric Planeswalker of Zendikar and why he isn’t played in standard. Well with the topic outlined, let’s hop right in.

Sorin Markov, the only planeswalker who could make Edward Cullen ashamed of himself. Being alive for Bolas knows how long, Sorin has become a powerful sorcerer, relying mostly on a type of magic known as Sangromancy better known as blood magic. This powerful branch of magic gives him the ability to siphon life, cast curses on his enemies, or even dominate a victim’s mind. However, don’t just think this ashen skinned, white haired, man is just some overly powered mage. Sorin knows his way with a blade too and being alive as long as he has been, Sorin probably know moves that would even make shonen manga characters questioning how many laws of physics this vampire just broke.

In summary, Sorin Markov is a literal reservoir of ideas and power, ready for use to make a perfectly awesome and useable Planeswalker and wizards have done exactly that. However, no matter where you look in standard there is neither hide nor hair of this terrifying and awesome vampire. Why is that? Well to be honest you only have to look at the card to understand.

Look at Sorin Markov’s planeswalker card, at first glance we can see one of, if not the, main reasons why he isn’t played. Coming in at :mana3::manab::manab::manab:, Sorin is the second most expensive planeswalker to date. This makes him pretty unplayable. Why? The key to most magic is speed. How soon can you play this card? How quickly can your win plan begin? That’s why creatures with Haste are pretty darn useful. As soon as they hit the field they can begin to affect the flow of the game. Sorin’s cost is probably the biggest hindrance to his actually playability because by the time you finally get Sorin out, your opponent, no doubt, already has some big creature on the field or some other way of dealing with him. I mean look at Koth of the Hammer. Koth is a :mana2::manar::manar: planeswalker meaning that he fits in perfectly with the decks that are currently being played. He is fast to play, brings the heat, and knows exactly how bring the power of Red mana right into an opponent’s face. Red Deck Wins will never be the same again. Jace Beleren is another example of this as well. Being the cheapest Planeswalker as of yet, :mana1::manau::manau:, Jace Beleren is amazingly useful and actually affects both you and your opponent’s as early as turn three. This means you can start to get card advantage in the early game where it is always useful. As Sorin stands now, he will probably never be played outside of casual, which is okay, but I still think he deserves more.

Now a bad mana cost definitely hurts Sorin, but what else could play into the reason why so few players play him. Other than his mana cost, his starting loyalty is 4… though it could stand to be higher especially if he is such a late game card. However, one thing that I personally think hinders Sorin, again not as much as his cost, is the fact that he really does not affect the game that much. Let me show you what I mean. Look at Sorin’s first ability, “+2, Sorin Markov deals 2 damage to target creature or player and you gain two life.” Well this is nice ability, but it just doesn’t do that much. Granted this ability could be useful in getting rid of Myrs, Noble Hierarchs, or that pesky Runeclaw Bear, but gaining two life really is not all that awesome of a bonus. Sure it might help stave off death a little, but it’s just not enough. It’s like you’re trying to tie down a boat and you throw a line to your friend on the dock, but the line is too short. Someone feels useless while someone else is left drifting back out to sea against his or her will. If Wizards ever decides to remake Sorin, they will definitely have to pump this ability or completely change it.

Now what about Sorin’s other abilities, do they damage or reinforce the desire for people to play Sorin? In opinion I’d have to say they do both. Let me explain. Sorin’s second ability reads, “Target opponent’s life total becomes 10.” This ability is nice because during the early days of Zendikar there were a number of vampires that required an opponent’s life total to be 10 or less for their abilities to kick in. A few examples are Bloodghast who gains haste, Vampire Lacerator who stops hurting you, and even Ruthless Cullblade from Worldwake who gains +2/+1 becoming a 4/2. Now this seems like a pretty good ability, limiting, but also relatively reachable. Saying all that, again returning to how late game Sorin is, what opponent is going to have more than 10 life by turn 6. I’ll tell you what kind, an opponent that is pretty close to winning the game. With this in mind, activating Sorin’s second ability might actually gain your opponent life instead of actually helping you. Also, we have already seen a trend of vampires turning away from the 10 or lower life requirement so this ability is being forgotten. Out of the past 20 vampires released by Wizards, Ruthless Cullblade was the only one to use this ability. Going back into Zendikar, this adds another 9 vampires (not including Sorin) to the total and only 3 of those actually used the ability. This 10 life ability is dead in my book and we need something to replace it.

Now for all my railing against Sorin, I have to say there is one thing that I truly do like about Sorin as he current stands in Magic. Sorin’s final ability is like a thick New York steak, warm, juicy, and full of wonderful flavor. The ability reads, “-7, You control target player’s next turn.” This is an awesome ability that truly advertises Sorin’s power of Sangromancy, plus who doesn’t love the idea of controlling another player’s turn. “Oh look at the Lightning Bolt you just drew. That probably would have been a real bother to deal with, but instead I’ll have you lightning bolt yourself… or maybe your White Knight.” In a multiplayer match, this ability is truly awesome. “Let’s see, I’ll have you attack your best friend with your Baneslayer Angel, killing him. Then I’ll force you to sacrifice your angel to your Culling Dias. Isn’t life great?” This ability is so much fun and powerful. You could tap your opponent’s mana producing creatures for mana to power a Fireball to knock them down to kill range. There are so many applications for this ability and its one that I really, really like.

Alright, so now to the point of this otherwise purposeless discussion. I got the idea for this article from talking and chatting with you guys about your thoughts on a hopeful new Tezzert and the implications and powers of a new Garruk. As such, it’s now my time to step up to the plate and do my best to redo Sorin Markov, probably my favorite planeswalker.

As I said, in my opinion, Sorin’s first ability definitely needs to be tweaked. Now we cannot just turn the dial on Sorin’s damage dealing/life gaining potential up to 3, that just perpetuates the problem. Besides we already have Lightning Helix on a stick in the form of Ajani Vengant. Instead, why don’t we try to tie Sorin to the tribe he comes from, vampires? This would both limit and yet bolster Sorin’s affect on the game. Why not an ability that says, “+1, Sorin Markov deals X damage to target creature (or player) equal to the amount of vampires you control.” I think that works rather well because then the ability is not flimsy and useless like his old ability, but the ability isn’t all that breakable because of the destructive force of Day of Judgment, Consume the Meek, and All is Dust. I think that would be pretty fun.

Sorin’s second ability also needs some tweaking. Now I understand why Wizards decided to go this route with Sorin’s ability. They really wanted to outline what abilities were available to Sangromancers. They wanted people to see that Sorin could siphon life, call down curses, and dominate the weak. However, there are other ways to curse someone. If I were the one remaking Sorin, I would definitely give him an ability like this, “-X, Creatures target opponent controls get -X/-X till the end of the turn.” Again this ability is strong, but also limited by the number of counters on Sorin and the fact that it is to target opponent and not all. I was originally planning to limit it even more by having it be -0/-X meaning the creatures would be weaker, but still pack their punch. It’s an ability I’m happy with, but I still would like to fix it up a little more to make it work.

As for Sorin’s final ability, his ultimate, I would be quite happy keeping it where it is, “-7, You control target player’s next turn.” This ability works pretty nicely, though I might cut the loyalty to 6 instead of 7. However, there is another ability bouncing around in my head that I really like and I feel would also be useful in advertising the power of Sorin’s Sangromancy. “-6, Take control of three target creatures for the rest of the game. Untap these creatures. They are vampires including their other types.” This ability seems a little wonky, but let me explain. It’s one thing to be able to take over someone’s mind for a turn, but it takes real skill to take over three different minds, the minds of raging, confused monsters, and then turn them to your side forever. That is true power not to mention the fact that it then plays into Sorin’s first ability, allowing him to siphon even more life next turn. That would be really awesome and could be considered an improvement over the old Sorin.

So how do we make this guy truly effective? How do we show that Sorin is the true badass that he has been for centuries? Answer: give him a good starting loyalty and cost. Starting off at 3 like Jace, the Mind Sculptor sound be pretty good. As for his cost, I will freely admit that my ideas for Sorin put him in the danger zone. He has Vampire sensitive Corrupt, a board clearer, and three mind controls on his belt so dropping him to something like :mana2::manab::manab: just seems a little too much that early in the game. I think it might work, but it would also be pretty broken. Instead, dropping him to :mana3::manab::manab: seems more reasonable. Granted he still is a late joiner and still might not be played in standard, but at least now he would have a chance of seeing standard play.

So when we’re all said an done, this is my version of Sorin:

Sorin Markov the Vampire Lord :mana3::manab::manab: (mythic rare)
-1: Sorin Markov deals X damage to target creature or player equal to the amount of vampires you control
-X: Creatures target opponent controls get -X/-X till the end of the turn
-6: Take control of three target creatures for the rest of the game. Untap these creatures. They are vampires including their other types.
Loyalty: 3

I like it. Granted this is all speculation and probably won’t amount to anything, but it was still fun.

And now everyone’s favorite section, The Closing Questions Section:

1. Were you unhappy as I was when Rise of the Eldrazi came out and we didn’t get a brand new Sorin or Nissa?

2. What are your feelings on the current Sorin Markov?

3. How would you redo Sorin Markov?

Well everyone, thank you for reading this article. I look forward to writing another article next week. It will be a nice break from weeks of research and locking myself in my dorm room to keep myself focused on my work. And as always, “Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.” This is Corlando signing out.

whitey_mcfly
11-02-2010, 03:15 AM
1. I was perfectly satisfied with both walkers, and I didn't need to see them remade so soon.

2. Ah, Sorin. My favorite planeswalker. Expertly executed to be the ultimate "fun card". I really like him. The "race against time" factor is really true on this one. See, there are only a few planeswalkers in standard that have final abilities that are used more often than not. Other than Sorin, that's
Nissa, Elspeth Tirel, Garruk(duh), Gideon (although I really shouldn't count him since he can use his right off the bat), and Venser.
However, -2 is..kinda...weak....
Let's try to remember that the last thing that Sorin is is an aggro walker. He's control, and all of his abilities fall right in to that role. He's not meant to be speed. He's meant to stall for time. He's best with other walkers, and built to shut other walkers down. And besides, with the new proliferate mechanic, he can be fast when he needs to.

3. I really think that vampires should just stay in Zendikar. We don't need them anymore, and we don't need a planeswalker that is close to useless without a certain tribe to go with it (see Sarkhan the Mad, he makes his own tribe to work with). Anyhow, lets make ourselves a new Sorin.

Sorin, King of Shadows :mana3::manab::manab:

+1: Destroy target creature. Target player loses life equal to its power.

-3: Target player discards his/her hand.

-6: Gain control of all of target player's permanents until end of turn. Untap those permanents. Those permanents gain haste until end of turn.

Starting loyalty: 3

This design takes more to an aggro while still making a useful control utility. He basically messes your opponent's field up enough so you can finish him off with what you have.

Lelouch32
11-02-2010, 03:25 AM
Wow Mcfly, I gotta say I like your Sorin. I mean I would definitely play him. Good job.

The only critic I would make is that I don't think Sorin's +1 ability should deal damage to a player. Destroying a creature is fine. Dealing damage with a +loyalty ability is overkill.

I like the second ability and his ultimate is just awesome. Nice work.

whitey_mcfly
11-02-2010, 03:31 AM
Wow Mcfly, I gotta say I like your Sorin. I mean I would definitely play him. Good job.

The only critic I would make is that I don't think Sorin's +1 ability should deal damage to a player. Destroying a creature is fine. Dealing damage with a +loyalty ability is overkill.

I like the second ability and his ultimate is just awesome. Nice work.

Very well. Creature destruction it is. New Sorin:


Sorin, King of Shadows :mana3::manab::manab:

+2: Destroy target creature.

-3: Target player discards his/her hand.

-6: Gain control of all of target player's permanents until end of turn. Untap those permanents. Those permanents gain haste until end of turn.

Starting loyalty: 3

Lelouch32
11-02-2010, 04:00 AM
It makes sense. Might make Sorin a bit more playable and able to recover from hits faster. It's your Sorin, do as you wish. I'm just here to make suggestions.

Seth
11-02-2010, 09:21 AM
-> whitey_mcfly version of Sorin, King of Shadows

That's a prety broken card man, It's probably as good as Jace. Also loyalty should be 4 with a -3 second ability.

I'm slowly starting to dislike planeswalkers. I wish they would just stop printing new ones. Lorwyn had great planeswalkers, they fucked that up.

Lelouch32
11-02-2010, 01:30 PM
You know, I've noticed that amoungst my other friends. Some of them absoluetely hate planeswalkers. I'm sort of inbetween. I like them, but I can see why people would hate them.

Seth
11-02-2010, 02:12 PM
I liked them a lot at first (Lorwyn) and the powerlevel was great. Take cards like Chandra Nalaar and Lilliana Vess. That's just great on the powerlevel, a fun card that doesn't go over the top.
Garruk was always a house but even he is still ok as was the later printed Ajani Vengeant.

Now they print planeswalkers like they print creatures, the more the better.

I wish they had made planeswalkers artifacts, that would have made sense powerwise (and fluffwise it would not have taken much efffort either). Introducing a new powerful permanent type disrupts the game as older cards do not interact with them well. Currently it's just very hard to remove a planeswalker. (in reality, in theory it doesn't seem that big of a deal I know).

Lelouch32
11-02-2010, 03:01 PM
Yeah, in theory there are several ways to kill planeswalkers.

Vampire Hexmage
Liqumetal coating and shatter
Lightning Bolt if you're lucky
Or you could always do the tried and realitively successful notion of just running them over with creatures.

DedWards
11-02-2010, 05:59 PM
Yeah, in theory there are several ways to kill planeswalkers.

Vampire Hexmage
Liqumetal coating and shatter
Lightning Bolt if you're lucky
Or you could always do the tried and realitively successful notion of just running them over with creatures.

Or do as I do and ignore them and beat down the player controlling them. I find them more a distraction than a threat. I've only ever lost once because of a plainswalker ( Jace, the Mind Sculptor ).

I like whitey_mcfly's Sorin, King of Shadows, except for his fist ability, I find that it feals a little off (that could just be me though). I also can't think of anything to fix it (if it even needs fixing) at the moment.

Lelouch32
11-02-2010, 07:39 PM
Maybe limit it a little more by making it so that it's only non-black creatures?

whitey_mcfly
11-02-2010, 08:15 PM
Maybe limit it a little more by making it so that it's only non-black creatures?

Ok, but I have to add "cannot be regenerated".

08merlin527
11-02-2010, 09:14 PM
Or do as I do and ignore them and beat down the player controlling them. I find them more a distraction than a threat. I've only ever lost once because of a plainswalker ( Jace, the Mind Sculptor ).

I like whitey_mcfly's Sorin, King of Shadows, except for his fist ability, I find that it feals a little off (that could just be me though). I also can't think of anything to fix it (if it even needs fixing) at the moment.

Personally, i quite like the idea behind planeswalkers, despite owning only 3 (elspeth, both versions, and tezzeret) but i do think that they should be make more killable. Unlike most peole, i think that maybe we should have a few more 3 per set is cool :)) but i do think they should be make easier to kill, or at least be able to stop it.

Maybe in the next block wizards will have a planeswalker theme - lots of new ones, lots of new reprints, and lots of ways to deal with the walkers. I just love the idea of droppind a walker a turn - im a mainly casual player :D

In response:
1. I dont think that either walkers needed a reprint - nissa was fine (even is she cant be included in legacy elves) and sorin is an okay card - to be honest with you, vampires never was, and i doubt it will ever be, one of the powerful tribes - which are probably Goblins, Elves, Merfolk/Wizards, the ever annoying faries, and possibly slivers. Neither of them need a reprint.

2. I think the current Sorin is very flavourful, but isnt good enought for anything but standard, and like i said, he is a vampire walker - vampires just arent a powerful enough tribe.

3. If i were to remake sorin, he would look like this:

Sorin, Lord of Blood :mana3::manab::manab:
Planeswalker - Sorin (Mythic Rare)
+2 you gain life equal to target creatures toughness, and do damage to target creature or player equal to target creatures power.
-2 put a 2/3 black vampire token into play with deathtouch and lifelink
-8 You get an emblem saying all pernaments come into play under your control. If it was a creature, it gains haste.
(4)

This is a more control version (i think) and i love all of his abilities - especialy his ultimate. It just has so much flavour!

Lelouch32
11-03-2010, 12:00 AM
Definitely not bad. I like the fact that he is more powerful than his current incarnation, but not over powered. Good ideas.

DedWards
11-03-2010, 04:51 PM
Dam, 08merlin527's Sorin, Lord of Blood is nice, I'd just like to suggest a small modification for his final ability:

-8 You get an emblem saying all pernaments come into play under your control unless it's owner pays 2 life. If it was a creature, it gains haste.

Lelouch32
11-03-2010, 06:12 PM
Oh that sounds like a lot of fun. Very fun because your opponent has to wager if you're holding a doom blade and if it is worth playing all of these creatures. It would be great against token producing decks.

Also, the creatures don't need to have haste because they'll be coming in on the opponent's turn, meaning that summoning sickness will end at the start of the upkeep step.

DedWards
11-03-2010, 06:43 PM
Oh that sounds like a lot of fun. Very fun because your opponent has to wager if you're holding a doom blade and if it is worth playing all of these creatures. It would be great against token producing decks.

Also, the creatures don't need to have haste because they'll be coming in on the opponent's turn, meaning that summoning sickness will end at the start of the upkeep step.

I think the haste part was for if you get the creature (though poorly worded here), but it can be left off

Grimfoxw00t
11-03-2010, 07:15 PM
i just want to start of saying that i am a big fan of planeswalkers, and i wouldn't like seeing them getting removed from the game in general. But to answer the questions:

1. i didn't really like nissa, so no, i wouldn't like to see it get a "sister" if you will. as a mainly standard player and a big fan of toying with new deck ideas in the low budget area, i don't see much fun in nissa. I mean, don't get me wrong, i think that the Monument deck with nissa was very powerfull, but i have a hard time seeing how she should develop to be a non-tribal planeswalker. and in the standard format, making a tribe deck doesn't take that much thought. but off to sorin.

Sorin struck me the first time i saw him as an amazing planeswalker to toy around with. It was actually not till later on i saw him as a potential tribe-walker. i mean, the whole "10 life" thing, to me, just isn't powerfull enough. that beeing said i think he has great potential getting you back in the game. I mean, consider this: it's a late game (obviously, since sorin mainly would be played in a mono-black deck and his manacost is pretty high) and your opponent finally got you cornered with a baneslayer. Now, if you get cornered by a baneslayer, many cases show (in my experience anyway) that you are pretty much, well yea.. screwed. Since you lose 5 life each turn and your opoonent gains 5 life each turn and when u finally nail the baneslayer with one of your removals, it's pretty far fetched that that you take down your opponent with his most likely 10-20+ life advantage. But then! enter sorin! you suddenly force your opponent down at 10 life points. this Can only (in Standard format anyway) be an advantage. I'm not saying it will save you every time. But i AM saying that if he can't play an answer to your sorin, you are "mini-baneslaying" if you will, him every turn. if he doesn't have an answer after the first round. you are sudenly up the scale by two life and he is down by two life. It doesn't seem like much, but as McFly said earlier in this thread, he isn't about aggro, he is about late game control. And as mentioned before in this thread, with an engine to add counters to your planeswalker, he could become quite nasty. so that pretty much answers question 2. But to refer all this to the other half of question 1: yes! yesyesyes. i would love to see sorin get an expansion if you will. I really hope they make one. But i wasn't exacly bummed that they didn't make a new one. But that's propably because i had been on a 2-3 month magic break and just was getting into SOM.

as for question 3:

i actually have to be bit boring on this one, because i wouldn't know where to begin on putting a new sorin together. But as i said before, i really hope they make him a "brother".

ZacAttackFtw
11-05-2010, 01:00 AM
Sorin :mana2::manab::manab::manab:

+1 Exile target non-black creature
-4 Gain two life for each exiled creature
-8 All creatures exiled by Sorin come into play under your control as Black Vampire creatures. They have haste and lifelink.

..Shrug.

Grimfoxw00t
11-05-2010, 07:51 AM
Sorin :mana2::manab::manab::manab:

+1 Exile target non-black creature
-4 Gain two life for each exiled creature
-8 All creatures exiled by Sorin come into play under your control as Black Vampire creatures. They have haste and lifelink.

..Shrug.

That's propably the Sorin that made most sence to me during this thread, and he sounds really awesome. just gotta ask. what's his starting loyalty counter?

KaraZorEl
11-05-2010, 08:47 AM
I might be one of the few people who actually plays Sorin Markov as he is. He's in my Grixis deck and he helps quite a bit. Sorin works best in control when you can extend the game a little bit. If you can manage to save your counter spells for big creatures and make sure they don't keep their Fauna Shaman, you should be all right. Sorin's first ability is probably my favorite because it lets you kill things on the board that would be a problem in late game....like Lotus Cobra with three Misty Rainforests in play.

Sorin's ultimate hasn't proven overly useful that often. At best, I find that I can tap someone's mana so they don't do anything or have them attack with their Birds of Paradise or whatever. By turn 6, most players have already played their best cards, which are usually five or six drops. If they haven't, I've probably won anyway.

Here's what I would do with the next Sorin:

http://i55.tinypic.com/v58nfb.jpg

rileyandholly88
11-06-2010, 12:16 AM
I knew eventually people's opinion of Planeswalkers would change, it was just a matter of time.

ZacAttackFtw
11-06-2010, 02:56 AM
I wasn't sure. I was thinking 4. Figured someone else might toy around with it. =P

Lelouch32
11-06-2010, 05:04 AM
Riley your back. Haven't heard from you in a while.

rileyandholly88
11-07-2010, 01:51 AM
Not really back, I don't ever play Magic so I just look around honestly.

pastahunter
11-07-2010, 11:45 AM
1. Were you unhappy as I was when Rise of the Eldrazi came out and we didn’t get a brand new Sorin or Nissa?
Er... Wizards never printed two walkers with the same name in one block... I don't see why they should've... Maybe we'll get a new nissa in the new Mirrodin block (since there already is this awesome Overrun elf boss) but I think it's all done for with sorin. He doesn't really have his own "story" like Elspeth, or Ajani, or Jace (or any other walker that got a new version).

2. What are your feelings on the current Sorin Markov?
I say "EDH" and you should know enough :P 40 life -> 10 life... ouch. Especially since EDH will always become lategame.

3. How would you redo Sorin Markov?
I wouldn't. Simple as that. -2/+2 for +2 loyalty is good enough (does the same as a nighthawk, but better), 10 life is useful if you didn't manage to get him there and you won't be needing that ability anyway in that case so you'll just go for the big one and mindslave.

Seth
11-08-2010, 09:55 AM
I agree, for EDH Sorin is very good. He tipped the balance for me plenty of times. All of his abilities are great in EDH.

ATRiUS
11-11-2010, 04:29 PM
I like Sorin. He's a baller in EDH, which has been mentioned, but I agree.

And anyone who says his -3 ability isn't relevant in standard? I can say that if SOMEHOW he were to make it into MBC.dec, he would be relevant. You have bombs like Grave Titan and Persecutor that could quickly decimate someone if you were in a stalemate. He's also pretty good at battling opposing 'walkers...

zerosociety
11-23-2010, 08:02 PM
Not really a huge fan of planeswalkers both to play with, and to play against. I think wizards need to look at the rest of the card base to stop the kind of abuse you get with the likes of Uber Jase, but if I were to remake Sorin, it would look something like this:

Sorin, Lord of Blood 3BB

Planeswalker - Sorin (Mythic Rare)
+1 Exile Target Creature. Return creature to original players control at the beginning of the next end step with a -1/-1 counter on it
-2 Untap and gain control of target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it. This creature gains haste until end of turn.
-8 Untap and gain control of all creatures with a -1/-1 counter on it. These creatures become vampires as well as their original creature types and gain lifelink and deathtouch.
(4)


Only thing I would possibly look at is either increase Sorins starting counters by 1, or decrease his uber ability by 1

kaittaja
11-23-2010, 11:01 PM
I don't like planeswalkers. I mean the new ones the over powered ones
Gideon Jura, Jace the mind-sculptor, Koth of the Hammer. all of these are over powered. Lorwyn -walkers were balanced and beatable and got to say sorin, tezzeret or ajani is my favourite. Tezzeret is basically artifact-walker Ajani is lifegain-walker and sorin is vampire and very usefull in the vampire deck. leyline of sanctity fucked sorin up

At the time vampire's were in i played sorin in there and he was kinda worth something

Fuck JtM-S he is a low life who does what he wants

zerosociety
11-24-2010, 02:38 PM
Scratch that, thought about this again last night and would make more sense running as below:

Sorin Markov, Vampire Lord 3BB

Planeswalker - Sorin (Mythic Rare)

+2 Exile Target Creature. Return creature to original players control at the beginning of the next end step with a -1/-1 counter on it
-1 Untap and gain control of target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it. This creature gains haste until end of turn. Return to original players control at end of turn
-7 Untap and gain control of all creatures with a -1/-1 counter on it. These creatures become vampires as well as their original creature types and gain lifelink and deathtouch.
(4)


If Wizards released this I would DEFINITELY look at playing it, especially with the amount of infect/wither out there. Would also work combo wise, thinking of the likes of Carnifex Demon either with or without the mimic vat. hmmmm. Tasty. Almost makes that 5 cast worthwhile!!!

Not really a huge fan of planeswalkers both to play with, and to play against. I think wizards need to look at the rest of the card base to stop the kind of abuse you get with the likes of Uber Jase, but if I were to remake Sorin, it would look something like this:

Sorin, Lord of Blood 3BB

Planeswalker - Sorin (Mythic Rare)
+1 Exile Target Creature. Return creature to original players control at the beginning of the next end step with a -1/-1 counter on it
-2 Untap and gain control of target creature with a -1/-1 counter on it. This creature gains haste until end of turn.
-8 Untap and gain control of all creatures with a -1/-1 counter on it. These creatures become vampires as well as their original creature types and gain lifelink and deathtouch.
(4)


Only thing I would possibly look at is either increase Sorins starting counters by 1, or decrease his uber ability by 1

kaittaja
11-27-2010, 06:53 PM
SO DAMN BROKEN !!! seriously sorin isn't a exiler or infect. HE IS VAMPIRE so basically make the abilities like that but not broken

Sorin, the bloodchief

2:manab::manar: - 4

planeswalker-Sorin

+1 target vampire gets deathtouch and lifelink until the begining of your next upkeep

-2 sorin, the bloodchief deals 3 damage to target creature, if the creature is put into graveyard this turn, all vampire creatures gets +1/+1 counter

-10 all non-vampire creatures you don't control becomes black vampire creatures. You gain control of all vampire creatures, untap them and they gain haste untill end of turn.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

so what ya think of this kind of sorin? it's balanced, basically sorin's +1 ability gives basilisk collar to someone. -2 is bolt and if the bolted one dies all vampires in battlefield gets the +1/+1 and -10 is arc of treason to all and permanently and sametime make them vampires.

Lelouch32
11-28-2010, 03:02 AM
I like it though I think his final ability is a touch over powered.

kaittaja
11-28-2010, 02:11 PM
I'd say not since it starts from 4 and it needs 10 so it'll be 5 rounds there and the plus ability needs vampires to do anything good and it's easy to kill out the way... is big jace's ultimate broken?

whitey_mcfly
11-28-2010, 08:10 PM
I'd say not since it starts from 4 and it needs 10 so it'll be 5 rounds there and the plus ability needs vampires to do anything good and it's easy to kill out the way... is big jace's ultimate broken?

Nah. How often are you going to get Jace up to 12, anyway? Hardly anyone uses it, and even then rarely on a regular basis. Most of the time people just brainstorm every turn.

kaittaja
11-28-2010, 09:06 PM
exactly and the -2 ability is way too tempting to use with this sorin so it won't easily go to 10+ counters and it's kinda win ability

Seth
11-30-2010, 09:50 AM
Nah. How often are you going to get Jace up to 12, anyway? Hardly anyone uses it, and even then rarely on a regular basis. Most of the time people just brainstorm every turn.

actually, every single time. Jace has become the exception. In legacy tournament decks that play Jace, Jace ultimate is the only kill of the deck, the rest is control. Landstill with Jace and Life from the Loam is a pretty nasty deck.
Maybe in standard Jace's Ultimate isn't the kill of all those Jace decks but it's a realistic option because once Jace starts to Fateseal it's usually game over anyways and most people just don't wait on the ultimate and give up.

As for Sorin I agree, you use him 99% of the time to put your opponent on 10 life and if he doesn't get killed the 2 damage every turn is a nice option but his ultimate is rarely used. Mindslaver is more effective if you want to go for that sort of thing.

titanwalker
12-04-2010, 02:52 AM
I have not read through all these posts; but of what I was reading one idea seemed lacking. When a card is being made they also have to keep in mind Legacy and extended to some degree. To make my point clear.

Theoretical Opening hand:
-Sorin Markov
-Swampx2
-Dark Ritualx2
-rest irrelevant

1st turn: play swamp

2nd turn: play swamp
x2 dark ritual
Sorin Markov
-set opponents health to 10

Now have a strategy based on that.

Now I know why he isn't used in Standard, and the logic posted seemed accurate and true. However in this demonstrated strat, he becomes a VERY powerful card. Is he the best? no. Does he need to be improved? No! He is a very fun and interesting card, however he's not a standard tournament card. But still fun.

MasterArchenemy666
12-05-2010, 04:20 AM
The fact that new planeswalkers were not released doesnt bother me, what does is rise of eldrazi. Im starting to warm up to the eldrazi but I initially thought they broke the game, especially if you incorporate cards like Triassic egg. Im looking for some senior player feedback so if you have any thoughts on the eldrazi let me know.

As for the current Sorin, I think for his cost he was not as effective as he couldve been. I also think that a good redo of him would be to give him a low mana cost, possibly four, low starting loyalty, possibly three, his plus ability just slightly better, but a long way to go to reach his final ability, and if the original Sorin has the control player, I very much like the idea taking control of all creatures for one turn. I also think that although he resembles vampires, it would be too limiting to make his abilities reliant on vampires because of his extremely versatile final ability.

A possible total redo:

Sorin, Lord of Sangromancy-2[B][B]
Planeswalker-Sorin
Starting Loyalty-3
+2 Place two -1/-1 counters on target creature.
-4 Destroy target creature.
-10 Take control of all of target opponent's creatures until end of turn. Untap them, they gain haste until end of turn.

I thought it would be an interesting balance because the top two abilities benefit the controller in general, but equalize when the final ability is used because the controller has been damaging the opponents creatures anyway. Although counter productive, I believe it creates a total balance, please let me know what you think.

zerosociety
12-06-2010, 02:24 PM
SO DAMN BROKEN !!! seriously sorin isn't a exiler or infect. HE IS VAMPIRE so basically make the abilities like that but not broken

Sorin, the bloodchief

2:manab::manar: - 4

planeswalker-Sorin

+1 target vampire gets deathtouch and lifelink until the begining of your next upkeep

-2 sorin, the bloodchief deals 3 damage to target creature, if the creature is put into graveyard this turn, all vampire creatures gets +1/+1 counter

-10 all non-vampire creatures you don't control becomes black vampire creatures. You gain control of all vampire creatures, untap them and they gain haste untill end of turn.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

so what ya think of this kind of sorin? it's balanced, basically sorin's +1 ability gives basilisk collar to someone. -2 is bolt and if the bolted one dies all vampires in battlefield gets the +1/+1 and -10 is arc of treason to all and permanently and sametime make them vampires.

Not really hugely broken. Yes, it is a harsh ultimate, however, since any creatures need to have a -1/-1 counter on them, you are probably going to kill a lot of creatures before Sorins ultimate activates, and if an opponent has a large enough creature, they are going to swing hits to take out Sorin. Any zoo decks would probably stop playing creatures until they could deal with sorin and remove him from the table.

I think the abilities I included do show Sorin as a vampire. Looking at it as exile/infect abilities is looking in the wrong light. The exile ability is showing Sorins strength in taking a creature away, returning with a -1/-1 counter as the creature has been drained of some of its energy/life force.

Personally, I feel that Wizards need to take a look at their future planeswalkers, as the community seems very split atm between a love/hate relationship. The problem is, like with Current Sorin, when they are bad they are pointless, but as with Jace 2.0, when they are good they are too powerful. Yes, we can argue there are other cards out there that are equally as powerful, however most of these cards rely use of another card, or another selection of cards to really use the power (dreadnought stifle for example). Having 1 card this powerful is just a little excessive, and will become very difficult for DCI to control in tournament environments, other than banning it outrightly, which seems a sad situation to be left with.

kaittaja
12-07-2010, 05:09 AM
Your right in chalenge like this it's evidable to bring out the "all hail Jace 2.0" 'cos he is just combo alone seriously what next blue mana instant - Target player wins the game? seriously WotC makes Jace 2 and then the decks that run set of him wins ... sounds fair?:eek:

jclark9858
12-18-2010, 06:14 AM
Sorin, Father of the Night 2:manab::manab::manab:

+ 1: Destroy target creature unless your opponent pays 3 life. If destroyed target creature was not black put a 1/1 black vampire creature token onto the battlefield under your control.

- 3: Your opponent loses life equal to the number of Vampires you control, and you gain that much life.

- 7: You get an Emblem with, "All creatures you control are vampires in addition to their other types. Vampires you control get +1/+1 and have Flying and Lifelink."

Loyalty: 4


Let me know what you think. I have never "remade" a card before. I made Sorin this way so that he comes out on turn 5 and wouldn't be over powered, but at the same time he can build up an army with Flying quickly, and his Ultimate ability means you don't HAVE to have a strictly Vampire deck to play him. Plus you can't use his Ultimate until 3 turns after he has been played, and that is without them causing damage to him.

Anyways, opinions?

Lelouch32
12-18-2010, 01:35 PM
I like the second and third ability, but I think that the first ability needs work. It's a little over powered in the sense that you get two flyers every turn. throw on a Vampire bite and you have a 4/1 with lifelink swinging at your opponent.

I think you should have a destroy target creature or something like, "Target creature gets a -1/-1 counter." Something small, but always useful. You could increase it to two counters if you think it is a little weak.

kaittaja
12-18-2010, 05:13 PM
I'd say take the flying part away and make it do one 2/2 vampire creature token... that's more reasonable, Just basic black colored bear

jclark9858
12-18-2010, 05:30 PM
Ok. I updated the first ability quite a bit, let me know if u guys still think it is overpowered.

kaittaja
12-18-2010, 06:15 PM
ok now it starts to look like balanced card but again it makes B vs B, difficoult so mirrormatch will be a nightmare. But other than that... GJ

charliebaas
01-07-2011, 06:38 PM
i personally want a reprinted planeswalker that can balance jace or at least match with jtms. so here is my version of sorin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorin the blood drinker 2:manab::manab:
Planeswalker - Sorin

+2 : draw a card and you lose one life
0 : pay X life, put half that many loyalty counters on Sorin rounded down
-1 : sorin deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life
-12 : your life is now 30 and your opponent is 3

loyalty : 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

now take that jace!

Nianque
02-11-2011, 08:56 PM
You all are looking at both Nissa and Sorin the wrong way.

1. Were you unhappy as I was when Rise of the Eldrazi came out and we didn’t get a brand new Sorin or Nissa?:
Why would they come out with two versions of the same planeswalker in the same block? And no I was not unhappy (was not even playing MTG then) both of them are very good in their own way and have very unique play styles to them (in fact they're opposites). And the planeswalker that they did come out with was the answer to the Eldrazi. Lore wise Gideon was the one who killed a good portion of the eldrazi (as seen on... 'All is Dust'? I'll have to check on that).

2. What are your feelings on the current Sorin Markov?:
He fits perfectly with what the lore says about him. According to the lore (which I am a big fan of) Sorin is disgusted with the vampires of Zendikar (as seen on the 'Feast of Blood' card) this means that most of his abilities will not have too much to do with vampires and that he would never make new vampires (as they would not be able to control themselves). He also is NOT a Bloodchief (to the best of our knowledge) which means he cannot make new vampires, only Nulls (as seen on the 'Mindless Null' card).

Play wise he is built around control, not aggro. Which means he goes in a control deck, which means you can stall for enough time to get him onto the field. His first ability, I do not know why you all hate it so much... It give him 2 loyalty counters! His second ability... Yes it goes great with some vampire cards but that's not it's only use! It's main use would be to counter the following decks: Life Gain, Angel, Vampire, and Elf. In fact he counters Nissa extremely well in every aspect. His third ability is flawless. If I had to say anything about it, it would be... Actually, I cannot say anything bad about it.

3. How would you redo Sorin Markov?:
Like I said, I like the way he is right now. If I had to remake him... I would make his +2 ability drain 3 life instead, and his -3 ability target ANY player.

If I were to make a new version all together?

Sorin, the Blood Lord (3BBB)
+2 Deal 3 damage to target creature, you gain 3 life.
-1 Target creature gains lifelink and deathtouch until end of turn.
-9 Gain control of all creatures on the battlefield.
Starting Loyalty: 5

As you can see, I kept his cost as I find it is perfect for a good control deck. I decided the +2 ability would only target you, to prevent overpowering when played in a team game. The -1 ability... I decided to throw in an ability that you would have to think twice about going for his ultimate. Speaking of his ultimate, instead of controlling a powerful spellcaster (another planeswalker) like his original ability does, he gains control of all the creatures said spellcaster(s) have. And then his starting loyalty... He is the second oldest known planeswalker.

This puts him above most of the other planeswalkers but below Nicol Bolas (and of course Jace, the Mind Sculptor). I tried to make him as powerful as possible without overdoing it. His weakness in this version would be other control decks.

dainir
03-09-2011, 07:53 AM
Sorin, the Ambassador of Blood 2BB

+1 Your opponent sacrifices a creature. You scry 2 and gain 2 life.
+0 Vampires you control gain Flying and Lifelink until the end of turn.
-2 You gain control target creature, it is now a vampire in addition to its other types.
-7 You get an emblem with "Whenever you gain life, target opponent loses that much life.

4 loyalty