combos and strategies

[mtglord]

basic combo's:

dovescape (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=107428) and palliation accord (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=97118)
effect: opponent cant play non-creature spells and the bird tokens that they get from dovescape (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=107428) are useless (as long as they are 1/1's) because you can prevent the dammage with palliation accord (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=97118).

gather specimens (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=175011) imprinted on panoptic mirror (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=47930) with dovescape (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=107428)

effect: opponent cant play anything but lands, and tokens gennerated by dovescape (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=107428) come into play under your control.

[mtglord]

grindstone (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=4610) and painter's servant (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=146022)

Power Artifact (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=power_artifact) and Grim Monolith (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=grim_monolith)

time walk (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=time_walk) imprinted on Isochron Scepter. (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=46741)

you can find more strategies by asking around at fnm.

[mtglord]

1- panoramas are best if left in your casual play deck not in you tournament deck

2- same goes for heralds, most of the time

3-run only 2-3 obolisks in your deck and should almost always be used in esper decks.

4- for naya the coming into play abbillities are way better than the in play abilities so dont try and create a 5 power or greater creature just run more of them in stead.

5- pryoclasm and other wrath effects are a nust if you arnt running a weenie deck especialy if your deck takes a while to get started.

6-dont be affriad to make cross shard decks because unhless you think out side the box you probobly wont create a winning deck by your self.

7-if you want to keep your deck within one shard look to the other sets for cards that are right at home in the shard.

8-just because you are playing a specific shard doesnt meen that the rares for that shard will be best in your deck. each shard can be played in multiple ways.

[braggzy454]

heres a few more combos.
--extended--
enduring renewal+wild cantor+grapshot=a million damage


--legacy--
stasis+chronotog+frozen aether.=perma lock they cant untap stuff. and wat they play comes into play taped. u skip u turns via chronotogs ability. eventually they mill themselves.:D

i can name alot more lmk if u want some ideas.

[mtglord]

oona+painters servant

furnace of rath+wolly thoctar (attack)+souls fire= 20 dammage if unblocked wolly thoctar

megrim+thought seize=2 dammage for your 1 + they discard a card +you draw a card.

[mtglord]

yes you can post to your hearts content the more you post the happier everyone else is.

[Gary]

Indeed, post away! :)

[mtglord]

godsire + brion straughtarm + where the ancients tread + (optional) mighty emergence

doubling season + tokens + mythcloth +mythcloth

[JundMage]

U W Weenie Deck using
Meadowboon + Momentary Blink= A lot of +1/+1 counters on your creatures!!

[bossman001412]

godsire + rings of brighthearth
alot of 8/8 beast
primal rage + devoted druid + Quillspike
the game on turn four for inffint damage

[mtglord]

try using where the anciets tread with godsire. total ownage. then add furnace of rath.

[NightLoki]

combo breaker? Painter's Servant and Knight of New Alara. Give the Knight all colors, then Mirrorweave the Knight to all of your creatures after you get a bunch of tokens out. Swing for the win

[bossman001412]

jace beleren + gilder bairn 20 mill turn 5

gilder bairn + mycoloth + rhys the redeemed alot more tokens

[mtglord]

paradox haze x4+Glimpse the Unthinkable on panopticmirror = 50 cards of top of opponents deck every turn

[mtglord]

mayael's Aria (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=180620)+cradle of vitality (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174789)+cliffrunner behemoth (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159612)
attack,pay mana gain life get a 10/8, next turn activate enchantments gain 10 life, pay mana get a 20/18, next turn win.

[bioeye]

indruder alarm + gosire = infinite 8/8 tokens
painter's servant + grindstone = infinite mill
laanowar elves + imirious perfect + intruder alarm = infinite 2/2 tokens
rirte of replication + harad diabolist = 216(or so) life loss

[Shadowex3]

Umbral Mantle + Any creature that makes more than 4 mana: Infinite mana and toughness on that creature, spend as you like (wellwishers, imperious perfects...)

Seedborn Muse + Vedalken Orrery: Broken in multiplayer, you can play anything at any time and all your permanents untap every other player's untap step.

Eldrazi Monument + Skullclamp: Three draws per turn. When skullclamped creature is fed to eldrazi you draw two cards, eldrazi demands a sacrifice every upkeep. Easy way to draw three cards per turn even when indestructible or with more than 2 toughness.

Umbral Mantle + 4 mana maker + token producer + Skullclamp: Infinite draw engine. Produce infinite mana, produce tokens, clamp tokens to death to draw two cards, play with infinite mana.

Privileged Position + Privileged Position: "Other permanents you control can't be the targets of spells or abilities your opponents control."

Glimpse of Nature + birchlore rangers + nettle sentinels: Play as many creatures as you can pay for with the infinitely untapping nettle sentinels.

Memory Jar + Megrim: Everyone discards their hand (taking 2 damage per card), draws 7 cards, and then at the end of turn discards THAT hand for another 2 damage per card. The net result is you get your teeth kicked in.


I've actually pulled off the Umbral Mantle infinite several times, it's basically a 1 card infinite as long as you have a creature that can tap to produce at least 4 mana since the mantle itself only takes 3 to untap that creature and give it +2/+2 until the end of the turn. If you have a Mercy Killing you can also produce infinite tokens with a single card.

[scumbling1]

This was from a thread a month or so ago:

Umbral Mantle (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153317) + Viridian Joiner (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46114): Equip the elf with the Mantle, then tap the elf for G. Add two additional mana from another source, and use the untap ability granted by the mantle to untap and grant the elf +2/+2. Now you can repeat the process, except the elf adds GGG this time, and you can untap him for free. Every time past the first, you create a net gain of mana with this process. The elf also gets arbitrarily large.

Grim Monolith (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=12626) + Power Artifact (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1043): It's painfully simple: enchant the monolith with power artifact. Now it taps for three mana, and untaps itself for two mana.

Basalt Monolith (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1096) + Rings of Brighthearth (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=140216): Tap the Monolith for three mana and then pay three to untap it, plus another two to copy the untap ability via the Rings. Let the Monolith untap once, then tap it for mana again before the copied untap ability has resolved. Then, that copy resolves, the Monolith is untapped and you have 3 mana floating. You may repeat the process as much as you wish for infinite mana.

Perstermite (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139428)/Sky Hussar (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=97109) + Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50321): Use Kiki Jiki to copy either of the listed creatures. The copy of the creature comes into play and untaps Kiki Jiki to repeat the process. You get infinite hasty flying tokens.

Time Vault (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=45) + Tezzeret the Seeker (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174912)/Voltaic Key (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5547): Use either the Key or Tez's ability every turn to untap the Vault and take an additional turn. Infinite turns.

Spellbinder (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5547) + Savage Beating (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5547): Imprint the Savage Beating on the Spellbinder, and whenever a creature weilding the equipment hits an opponent, you get another attack phase. You can attack as many times as you can get the creature through unblocked.

Animate Dead (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159249)/Dance of the Dead (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184612)/Necromancy (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3621) + Worldgorger Dragon (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=35056): Get the dragon in the graveyard somehow, and then animate it with one of the listed enchantments. The dragon enters the battlefield and it's triggered ability activates, exiling all your other permanents (including the Animate Dead). The Animate Dead is gone so the dragon dies, and it's leaves the battlefield ability triggers and returns the enchantment to play, where it may then reanimate the dragon and start the process over again. Each time a permanent is exiled and returned it comes back to play untapped, so each time through the loop you're free to float any mana you want from your infinitley-untapping lands.

Krak-Clan Ironworks (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51633)/Ashnod's Altar (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=11158) + x2 Myr Retriever (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46126): Sacrifice the Myr Retriever to the Ironworks/Altar to get two mana, and use it to play another Myr Retriever. Then sacrifice the second Myr for two, use it's triggered ability to return the first to your hand, and use the mana to play the Myr once again. Repeat ad nauseum for infinite Storm count. You can add Etherium Sculptor, Cloud Key, Helm of Awakening, or Stone Calendar to generate infinite mana, too.

There's probably hundreds of others out there. I can think of quite a few more myself, but I'm getting too lazy to post them all. I might come back and edit in a few in the future.

Here's some other stuff:

Kiki-Jiki + Thornbite Staff (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152904) + Blasting Station (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51131): Get all the aforementioned cards in play, with the Staff attatched to Kiki-Jiki. Tap Kiki to copy any non-legendary creature, then sac the copy to the Blasting Station, dealing 1 damage to a target. The token hitting the graveyard causes the Thornbite staff to untap Kiki-Jiki. Now copy the same non-legendary creature, and the token coming onto the battlefield untaps the Blasting Station. You may repeat this process as much as you like.

Composite Golem (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=135275) + Catalyst Stone (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=30005) + Corpse Dance (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4644): With the Catalyst Stone in play, sac the Composite Golem for five mana. You may now Corpse Dance the Golem back onto the battlefield by using three of that mana, and since you've bought back the Dance you can repeat this process, creating an arbitrarily large amount of nonblack mana.

Heartless Hidetsugu (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74572) + Gratuitous Violence (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=39666): Activate Hidetsugu's ability, dealing damage equal to half of each player's life total to everyone. Since Gratutitous Violence doubles all damage any creature you control would deal (and this included noncombat damage) every player at an even life total dies. If Hidetsugu is wielding a Loxodon Warhammer, you gain a lot of life. (this combo also works with Overblaze, Quest for Pure Flame, or Furnace of Rath)

Aggravated Assault (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=40195) + Nature's Will (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=80527): This requires both cards on the battlefield, lands that can produce a total of five or more mana, and attacking with a creature the opponent can't block. When you get a creature to hit your opponent, you get to untap all creatures and lands you control and attack again. Repeat until your opponent is dead. (this can also work with Hellkite Charger)

Charnelhoard Wurm (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179438) + Soul's Fire (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174951): Cast the Fire using the Wurm as it's first target and an opponent as the second. Since Soul's Fire has the Wurm deal the damage, the Wurm's ability triggers and you may return the Fire to your hand to use again.

[Shadowex3]

Just reminded me of a 3 card combo I HATE going up against in multiplayer:

Reveillark + Magus of the Disk + Karmic Guide: Tap Magus to nuke the field and kill all three. Reveillark triggers and returns Magus and Karmic guide. Karmic guide then triggers and returns Reveillark.

I haven't actually found a way to deal with that without the controller being able to set it off without an Azorius Guildmage.

[scumbling1]

Just reminded me of a 3 card combo I HATE going up against in multiplayer:

Reveillark + Magus of the Disk + Karmic Guide: Tap Magus to nuke the field and kill all three. Reveillark triggers and returns Magus and Karmic guide. Karmic guide then triggers and returns Reveillark.

I haven't actually found a way to deal with that without the controller being able to set it off without an Azorius Guildmage.

Oh yeah, I run that combo in basically every white EDH deck I build!

It's strong, but it can be disrupted with instant speed graveyard hate like Faerie Macabre or Ebony Charm.

[Shadowex3]

I didn't say it was impossible to deal with, I said I didn't know of any way other than Azorius Guildmage to deal with it without the controller being able to set it off.

[scumbling1]

I took what you said to mean the entire combo, refering to the recursion of all the creatures. My mistake.

[Seth]

breaking the combo is usually enough. I'd rather play swords to plowshares and the likes of that then Azorius Guildmage. plowing reveillark or karmic guide after the disk effect goes on the stack works well enough.

[bioeye]

Composite Golem (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=135275) + Catalyst Stone (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=30005) + Corpse Dance (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=4644): With the Catalyst Stone in play, sac the Composite Golem for five mana. You may now Corpse Dance the Golem back onto the battlefield by using three of that mana, and since you've bought back the Dance you can repeat this process, creating an arbitrarily large amount of nonblack mana.


how does this work?

[scumbling1]

I don't know how to answer that without just explaining the combo again in slightly different terms. Here goes:

With Catalyst Stone out, Corpse Dance costs a total of 2B to cast and then Buyback. The Composite Golem sacrifices itself to produce five mana, three of which goes to casting and buying back the Corpse Dance. You get the Golem back into play, the Dance back in your hand, and you have a remaining two mana floating around to use. Everytime you repeat this process it nets you two more mana.

Is that clearer?

[bioeye]

almost, catlist stone says flashback, not buyback but are they interchanable?

[scumbling1]

Oh, my mistake! I was meaning Memory Crystal.

[NightLoki]

Yeah, it doesn't work, but with memory crystal it would. Yay infinite combos!

[bossman001412]

Magosi, the Waterveil and Clockspinning miss one turn for as many as u want :):)

[scumbling1]

I don't think the Magosi + Clockspinning works; you have to return the Magosi to your hand as part of it's activation cost, so having any extra counters on it doesn't help. They'll just fall off as it goes to your hand. If you add Rings of Brighthearth in there, you can get two turns for every one you take, but that's about it.

They really did a good job at keeping people from breaking Magosi.

[Seth]

I don't think the Magosi + Clockspinning works; you have to return the Magosi to your hand as part of it's activation cost, so having any extra counters on it doesn't help. They'll just fall off as it goes to your hand. If you add Rings of Brighthearth in there, you can get two turns for every one you take, but that's about it.

They really did a good job at keeping people from breaking Magosi.

they sure did which is unfortunate, it's a bit underwhelming as it is now.

[NightLoki]

it's just not....good. Any combos with the previews from Worldwake? (it's completely spoiled now)

[bioeye]

white kird ape thing + temple garden?

[bossman001412]

I don't think the Magosi + Clockspinning works; you have to return the Magosi to your hand as part of it's activation cost, so having any extra counters on it doesn't help. They'll just fall off as it goes to your hand. If you add Rings of Brighthearth in there, you can get two turns for every one you take, but that's about it.

They really did a good job at keeping people from breaking Magosi.

your right I didn't noice that when I read the card

[Bonzai820]

Flickerwisp + [Your Opponent's] Phage The Untouchable

Not the easiest win condition to achieve, but if the opportunity presents itself, it works.

[Bonzai820]

Also, I have a question.
If Phage comes into play and I take control of it, say using Chromeshell Crab's morphing ability, does that activate Phage's win condition for my opponent?

[scumbling1]

No, Phage changing control won't kill her recipient. She only checks to see how she came into play when she enters the battlefield, which she already has long before Chromeshell Crab has the opportunity to steal her.

[bioeye]

sribnibblers+lotus cobra+tideforce elemental+ruin ghost= mill

[scumbling1]

^ Nice! Nobody can live down the shame of being Scrib-nibbled to death!

[esgal]

not really a good combo if you can choose any cards possible to have out, but its pretty good for the creature it is

thallid + doubling seasons + everlasting torment + thelon of havenwood

thallid only costs 1 forest to play, and if u play it turn 1, and not take fungus counters off then by the time u play doubling season, if u have thelon and everlasting out(turn 5) u can do 8damage, and it gets +4/+4 every turn after that because you get 2 fungus counters per turn and thelon gives +1/+1 per spore counter on fungus' and everlasting torment does damage in -1/-1 counters, which means for every 1 damage it usually does because of doubling seasons it now does 2

[Shadowex3]

I think doubling season, outside of arcbound, is basically deserving of it's nickname "Planeswalker Season".

[bioeye]

there are so many combos with doubling season. throw gilder bairn in the mix with planeswalkers and you win

[Bonzai820]

A good legacy combo is Puffer Extract + Altar of Dementia (great for mill decks) plus add in Mirari's Wake and you have yourself a party.

[bioeye]

cool bant deck win: turn one noble hierarch. turn two nobel heirarch attack for 2. turn tree bane slayer. turn four finest hour kill them. this happend at my FNM ine night.

[munson]

Beacon of Light + Leveler

Not really that "great" but a pretty hilarious/potentially awesome idea.

Also, 4 mana combo for putting something expensive into play:

Metamorphose + Swerve

[Wrathmane]

Aluren/Recycle then Mana Severence/ With a deck of 3 casting cost or less creatures. I run it with Slivers.

[scumbling1]

Aluren/Recycle then Mana Severence/ With a deck of 3 casting cost or less creatures. I run it with Slivers.

You should try Glimpse of Nature; it'll save you five mana.

[esgal]

I think doubling season, outside of arcbound, is basically deserving of it's nickname "Planeswalker Season".

does doubling season work on planeswalker's loyalty counters?

[Shadowex3]

does doubling season work on planeswalker's loyalty counters?

It'll give you double the starting counters but the abilities will still be the normal number of counters up or down since they're a cost.

Probably more decks would run it but it's also a $15 card...

[NightLoki]

actually the cost is the single amount, but doubling season'll still double how many're put on.

[Vigilentfool***]

Could one use Chandra and Nissa in tangent? Have Nissa keep spawning elves, keeping Chandra protected long enough to blow your opponent away?

[Shadowex3]

You could but it's simply a matter of why would you bother, she's just not that good. At least with bolas the issue is that he's too expensive.

[Vigilentfool***]

In a level up deck, I'm starting to think you're best friend would be a Whispersilk Cloak. You level up with minimum problems.

[Seth]

Could one use Chandra and Nissa in tangent? Have Nissa keep spawning elves, keeping Chandra protected long enough to blow your opponent away?

Chandra is indeed a good protector combined with other planeswalkers. A much better mix then using her with Nissa is chandra + Ajani Vengeant. Now there is a scary duo.

[Vigilentfool***]

Chandra is indeed a good protector combined with other planeswalkers. A much better mix then using her with Nissa is chandra + Ajani Vengeant. Now there is a scary duo.

Sorin + Chandra + Something that can block everything= Instant win?

Use Sorin to take their health to 10, then charge up Chandra, combine with something that can block for a long period of time. Unleash the minus 8 on them. You win.

[Shadowex3]

Chandra is indeed a good protector combined with other planeswalkers. A much better mix then using her with Nissa is chandra + Ajani Vengeant. Now there is a scary duo.

Gideon Jura and Elspeth, Knight-Errant. An undamageable 6/6 that can get +3/+3 and flying, so you can beat someone's face in with a flying undamageable 9/9 every turn.

[rustyrodriks]

Combo breaker? Servant and Knight of New Alara painter. Anna Knight, all colors, then Mirrorweave Knight for all your creatures when you leave a pile of chips. Swing to win

[kodepop1]

Earthcraft+ Squirrel Nest + Luminscent Rain

Merfolk Thaumaturgist+ Silvergill Dowser

Stonybrook Schoolmaster+ Judge of Currents + Summon the School+ Merrow Commerce.

These are pretty simple and overly done ideas, but I thought I'd post them anyways :)

[scumbling1]

Acidic Slime + Mirrorweave + Nacatl War-Pride- With the Slime already on the battlefield, attack with Nacatl War-Pride. When the Pride puts it's triggered ability onto the stack, creating duplicates of itself, Mirrorweave it into the Slime. The token-generating ability resolves, and the ability will then copy what the Pride has become. You get that many "enters the battlefield" triggers from the Acidic Slime tokens it creates. Feel free to dream bigger, and replace the Slime with other creatures (Angel of Despair, Sundering Titan, Terastodon, ect).

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

Humility + dovescape + orim's prayer = complete lock down.

[Lexusthegreat]

my EDH deck is built around this;

Experiment Kraj + Knacksaw clique or Merrow Wavebreakers or pili-pala or Gilder Bairn or Leech bonder

and basically any card with an activated ability like. Think;

Experiment Kraj + Leech bonder + Cytoplast manipulator

It gets even beter with a silver myr in play :D..

[scumbling1]

Your Kraj deck needs more Viridian Joiner! (Elvish Aberration and Krosan Restorer work as well)

[Seras]

Acidic Slime + Mirrorweave + Nacatl War-Pride- With the Slime already on the battlefield, attack with Nacatl War-Pride. When the Pride puts it's triggered ability onto the stack, creating duplicates of itself, Mirrorweave it into the Slime. The token-generating ability resolves, and the ability will then copy what the Pride has become. You get that many "enters the battlefield" triggers from the Acidic Slime tokens it creates.

i'm not sure if that works..mirrorweave has to resolve once the tokens are already on the battlefield to affect them, which means when they become copies they've already had their "enter the battlefield" event.

[Aneximines]

i'm not sure if that works

It does.

..mirrorweave has to resolve once the tokens are already on the battlefield to affect them, which means when they become copies they've already had their "enter the battlefield" event.

You're right about that. But Mirrorweave doesn't have to affect the tokens, it only has to affect the War-Pride just before the War-Pride's token-generating ability resolves.

You could also, for example, do this combo with Cytoshape (choosing the Slime and targeting the War-Pride) instead of Mirrorweave.

[Seth]

It does.

You're right about that. But Mirrorweave doesn't have to affect the tokens, it only has to affect the War-Pride just before the War-Pride's token-generating ability resolves.

You could also, for example, do this combo with Cytoshape (choosing the Slime and targeting the War-Pride) instead of Mirrorweave.

Although I must admit that it's very clever I'm still not convinced it works. The Nacatl ability says "put X tokens into play tapped and attacking that are copies of Nacatl War-Pride". Mirrorweave changes Nacatl into another creature with another name. The tokens that are created after mirrorweave resolves still have to be Nacatl War-Pride tokens, it's not like they copy the new creature, they don't even target it. The ability clearly states it creates Nacatl War-Pride copies.

[Seras]

You're right about that. But Mirrorweave doesn't have to affect the tokens, it only has to affect the War-Pride just before the War-Pride's token-generating ability resolves.

but if the token generating ability is already on the stack, then the properties of the tokens should be that of nacatl at the time it went on the stack, not at the time it resolves, no?

much like the value of X is determined when the attack is declared and the ability goes on the stack..if two defending creature are destroyed in reaction to the attack being declared you don't get X-2 tokens, right?

[Aneximines]

Although I must admit that it's very clever I'm still not convinced it works. The Nacatl ability says "put X tokens into play tapped and attacking that are copies of Nacatl War-Pride". Mirrorweave changes Nacatl into another creature with another name. The tokens that are created after mirrorweave resolves still have to be Nacatl War-Pride tokens, it's not like they copy the new creature, they don't even target it. The ability clearly states it creates Nacatl War-Pride copies.

When an ability refers to its source by name, it really just means "this object." This is why Experiment Kraj can make good use of River Boa's regeneration ability. So the name issue is no barrier.

(and turning the War-Pride into a copy of the Slime doesn't make it a different object, it just changes ten of its characteristics; just like Giant Growthing it changes two of its characteristics but doesn't make it a new object)

but if the token generating ability is already on the stack, then the properties of the tokens should be that of nacatl at the time it went on the stack, not at the time it resolves, no?

No.

608. Resolving Spells and Abilities
...
608.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. ...

The ability's effect checks for the characteristics the tokens are to assume when the ability resolves. If the object it's looking for has left the battlefield by then, it uses the object's "last known information" (the characteristics of the object the last time the object was on the battlefield).

much like the value of X is determined when the attack is declared and the ability goes on the stack

The value of X in this case is determined when the ability resolves, not when it goes on the stack. Perhaps you are thinking of spells and activated abilities with an X in their cost, in which case the player must choose a value for X when the spell/ability goes on the stack. That isn't happening here, though.

..if two defending creature are destroyed in reaction to the attack being declared you don't get X-2 tokens, right?

It isn't that you would get X-2 tokens, it's that you'd get X tokens where X is equal to the number of creatures currently on the battlefield.

For example, if the defending player controlled five creatures when the War-Pride attacked and three when its abilities resolves, then X would equal three and you'd get three tokens.


Oh, and in case you haven't found my arguments compelling, consider this ruling from the War-Pride's Gatherer entry (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130588):

If Nacatl War-Pride becomes a copy of something else after the ability triggers but before it resolves, the tokens will enter the battlefield as copies of whatever the ex-Nacatl War-Pride is now. If Nacatl War-Pride became a copy of something else and then left the battlefield, the tokens will enter the battlefield as copies of whatever it was copying when it last existed on the battlefield.

[Seth]

thanks for taking the time to explain this man, very useful info!!! That River Boa example is excellent, I didn't know that.

cheers

[twinkypants]

Ive been thinking alot about W/B/U life gain(T2) lately but i cant seem to make it work. just wondering if it can be done and be godly or its just another deck. heres what i have http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=120432 Comments/tips/ideas would be swell (:

[Descubre]

Because I'm brand new to this site, I don't know how to code in links so... the combo I discovered the other day just sittin around was Nature's Will and Hellkite Charger. Unless somebody else has already discovered this, if you have any unblockable creature, 2 mountains, and 5 colorless, you automatically win.

[Seth]

Because I'm brand new to this site, I don't know how to code in links so... the combo I discovered the other day just sittin around was Nature's Will and Hellkite Charger. Unless somebody else has already discovered this, if you have any unblockable creature, 2 mountains, and 5 colorless, you automatically win.

I posted this deck : http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=80290
For a Nature's Will challenge here on the forum a while back. It uses the combo you are suggesting.

[pete_h]

Because I'm brand new to this site, I don't know how to code in links so... the combo I discovered the other day just sittin around was Nature's Will and Hellkite Charger. Unless somebody else has already discovered this, if you have any unblockable creature, 2 mountains, and 5 colorless, you automatically win.

You have the same combo in Standard with Bear Umbra and the Hellkite

[crackjunior1]

Actually I have a deck dedicated to mayael's aria last ability but I work it with mossbridge troll's last ability...

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=134435

[TheChurchIsHere]

Some of my favorites:

Glimpse the Unthinkable + Bloodchief Ascension = Milling ten cards, they lose 20 life, you gain 20 life.

Sprouting Phytohydra + Wojek Embermage (and maybe a doubling season) for tons of basically unkillable defender tokens, then Vent Sentinel or Overwhelming Battlements + Fireball for the win.

Goblin Sharpshooter + Venomous Fangs = kill (almost) anything you want to kill.

The classic--Black Lotus + Channel + Fireball = turn 0 win

...and my personal favorite, which I abuse all the time:

Devoted Druid + Presence of Gond (+ Immaculate Magistrate/Wirewood Lodge/Rhys the Redeemed/Flourishing Defenses/Doubling Season) = overwhelfed. + Coat of Arms if you want the infinite combo. Also, Immaculate Magistrate + Joraga Warcaller is disgusting.

[Seras]

Goblin Sharpshooter + Venomous Fangs = kill (almost) anything you want to kill.


Basilisk Collar works even better to give death touch to pingers.


The classic--Black Lotus + Channel + Fireball = turn 0 win


that's a turn 1 win at the earliest.

[TheChurchIsHere]

Basilisk Collar works even better to give death touch to pingers.



that's a turn 1 win at the earliest.

True that, I meant turn 0 for your opponent. My bad.

[Arakane25]

just figured one combo out by looking at one guys deck that used the card "consecrated sphnix" it instantly made me think of the forceful fruition i have in my deck and if you combine it with jaces erasure, it makes a mean combo, and since your opponent is drawing during their turn, you wouldnt have to discard cards from your hand untill the end of your turn. plus if you put in a couple of safe gaurd cards in your deck to keep you from milling yourself you really cant lose unless an opponent uses a storm deck. the combo again is: Consecrated sphinx + Forced Fruition + Jaces Erasure

[jacktheinvisible]

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82358510883146063161297212730188046708656676348288 10152765616836432402802325435927138256606867245400 10110506453479916991671327509473634231408334458121 47351584449427711191338456056954533540515799632499 75746751364224319751909736427240873766694458386754 73351356689284295702991005664466230706714012792833 68353768554611404641373927911671608745079204274373 47310086882880075903880568555167715604698473212551 67444580993330710693809089653338587854750171648767 895709142745088 is the number of saprollings generated with two kicked rite of replications, a sporoloth ancient, a doubling season, an opalescence, and an upkeep. Clunky, you say? Not in a saprolling deck with life and limb. Besides, by the time you get to casting the rites, the cards will have paid themselves many times over, and are multipurpose. i problably wouldnt get to casting the, though, because of how many unlimited combos saprollings present.

[JacoBB]

Infinite turns :manag: :manau:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=148545

Infinite creautes or damage :manau: :manar:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=148554

Infinite mana :manag: :manau:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=148551

3-6 turn win :manab: :manag:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=148542

[harviksterwen]

Palliation Accord: Whenever a creature an opponent controls becomes tapped, put a shield mitigation agreement. Delete a shield against a tentative agreement: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.
Dovescape: Whenever a player casts a spell on a creature of the fight against this target. That player puts X 1.1 creature token white and blue, with birds flying across the battlefield, where X is the spells converted mana cost.

[Aneximines]

Palliation Accord: Whenever a creature an opponent controls becomes tapped, put a shield mitigation agreement. Delete a shield against a tentative agreement: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to you this turn.
Dovescape: Whenever a player casts a spell on a creature of the fight against this target. That player puts X 1.1 creature token white and blue, with birds flying across the battlefield, where X is the spells converted mana cost.

Your rewordings are poetic, but I don't see a combo or strategy here. Care to elaborate?

Edit: ah I see it, you're safe from your opponent's Birds and therefore he can't productively cast noncreature spells. That's cool. Dovescape locks are good because most efficient enchantment removal comes in noncreature form.

Hedron-Field Purists might be easier to manage than the Accord (three mana on two different turns rather than having to have five mana at once) and can be cast even after the Dovescape is on the 'field.

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

combined with humility dovescape gives you a complete lockdown of the opponent

[Seras]

not really, it just forces your creatures down to parity with his free birds

[jc2011]

Land tax + Land's edge + Zuran Orb
Annoying as hell 15 years ago, annoying as hell today

Painter's servant + Northern Paladin
Color everything black, pick it off with the Paladin

Mana flare + Candelabra of Tawnos

[Seth]

Mana flare + Candelabra of Tawnos

Candelabra of Tawnos taps as part of its cost, it's always been like that. So this is not a combo.

[jc2011]

Candelabra of Tawnos taps as part of its cost, it's always been like that. So this is not a combo.

And kids this is a lesson on why you should go to bed on-time and not post stuff at 2AM. I had completely forgotten about the Mono vs Continuous artifact rules.

[mtglord]

that post about the dove scape strat looks farmiliar, maybe ill check the first page...OH wait thats mine...:eek:

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

that post about the dove scape strat looks farmiliar, maybe ill check the first page...OH wiat thats mine...:eek:

Ooops... erm, forgot I'd posted that...

[jiggs]

myr welder + khalni gem+soliton (+ steel overseer + triskelion) = infinite mana + (infinite damage)

check out and comment the deck at

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=162574

[hunter5012]

Probably been covered:
2 x Myr Galvanisers + 1 Palladium Myr = infinate colourless mana.

Training grounds+ Filigree Sages + Khalni gem = Infinate mana

Training grounds+ 2x Filigree Sages + Khalni gem = Infinate Artifact untaps

All thre very usefull in a proliferate deck! Like this one i tried

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=178156

[Seras]

So someone just pointed out to me that Teferi
(http://magiccards.info/ts/en/83.html) makes Omen Machine
(http://magiccards.info/nph/en/148.html) not totally useless...together they make a pretty nasty lock.

it's slow/costly and all it takes is one removal in an opponent's hand...but if they don't happen to have the removal when it comes into play...that's pretty much it for them.

will be testing it in my UG self-bounce control deck

[NightLoki]

Teferi goes pretty well with Knowledge Pool too.

[Dark Phoenix Rising]

Painters Servant + Shield of Kaldra + Spreading Plague + Genesis Chamber = you have the only 2 creatures on the board until your opponent deals with part of the combo.

[KrisVicious]

spreading plague (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewCard_Popup.aspx?CardName=Spreading%20Plague&Edition=INV&Print=1) with darkest hour (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewCard_Popup.aspx?CardName=Darkest%20Hour&Edition=7ED&Print=1)

Endless Whispers (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewCard_Popup.aspx?CardName=Endless%20Whispers&Edition=5DN&Print=1) with Phage the Untouchable (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewCard_Popup.aspx?CardName=Phage%20the%20Untouch able&Edition=10E&Print=1)

Anything in my anti-creature deck (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=213701). :D

[jadedchaos]

Here's a fun few

1.) Infinite Combo
2-4x Etherium Sculptor (makes myr retriever free to play)
2-4x Myr Retriever (one in graveyard)
2-4x Grinding Station/ Blasting Station (mill or damage)
2-4x Dross Scorpion(every time myr is sac. untap Grinding Station/ Blasting Station)then return other myr retiever play it for free sac to a station rinse and repeat.

2.) Game lock down
in play
1x Lightning Greaves(shroud and haste)
1x Leonin Abunas(artifacts cant be target of spells or abilities opponents control)
1x Platinum Angel(since b/c of lightning greaves abunas is untouchable inturn meaning all artifacts are untouchable platinum angel = you win 100% of the time

[Annihilator1213]

I am new again to mtg after a long break. And i am especially new to the online mtg community, so this may be old news or nothing special. I recently posted a deck i am working on http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=260394 and my main focus is to get a Grand Abolisher, a Blighted Agent, and an unequipped Inquisitors flail on the battlefield, then enchant my Blighted Agent with an Angelic Destiny, and equip him with the Inquisitors Flail, all in one turn, for a one shot kill via 10 unblockable poison counters. Its a work in progress but my beta runs so far with my local mtg friends have been rather successful. You will really need your counter spells for the next game if you pull it off. Hope this is helpful.

[andrea666]

Hi,
[dead-iron sledge]+[nemesis mask]+[drudge skeleton].
Do you think can work?

[Goregrip821]

Dovescape + Guile: Counter everything, then take control of the countered spell, which gets countered again, but you get all the birds and your opponents will get none.

Ashnod's Altar+Mitotic Slime+Nim Deathmantle+Goblin Sharpshooter: Sac the slime to the altar, get 2 mana, the slime splits in two, sac another one, have 4 mana floating. Activate Nim Deathmantle's ability on the Mitotic Slime, bringing it back. You effectively have infinite slime tokens and infinite mana now. With Goblin Sharpshooter out, you have infinite damage as well.

[Kazzong]

Well, thought if this combo a while ago.
Quilspike+ viscera seer+ murderous redcap+ butcher of malikir.
Mass scry, and mass damage from the redcap. And if they had any creatures... Well, not anymore. :)

[mtglord]

i thought id add some popular modern combos to the list

kiki jiki (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244666)/splintertwin (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=193474) + deciever exarch (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=214365)/pestermite (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139428) = infinite tokens

blasting station (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51131) + kitchen finks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=141976) + melira (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194274) = infinite damage and life

nettle sentinle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=151095)+ heritage druid (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=152556) + cloudstone curio (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89089) + creautres in hand = infinite mana

red mana ritual spells (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205067) + low cost draw spells (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=233056) + past in flames (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=245197) + grapeshot (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=118882) = lots of damage

legacy combos---

senseis divining top (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=194972) + counterbalance (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=121159) = countering multiple spells each turn

phyrexian dreadnaught (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3263) + stifle (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=46558)= turn 2 12/12 trample

narcomeabas (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136140)(at least 3) + dread return (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270463)+ flamekin zealot (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83562) + bridge from bellow (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136054)(multiple in graveyard) = opponent is dead

punishing fire (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=247550) + grove of the burn willows (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130595)= burn recursion

card with cascade (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=185053) + the right deck + hypergenisis (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=113533)= lots of big creatures (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=244675)

smoke stacks (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=5730)+ crucible of worlds (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129480) + armagedon (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=228262) = lock down (dont make smoke stacks more than 1)

entomb (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270456) + big creature (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270447)(eleshnorn, sun titan or other) + exhume (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=270462)(or other similar spell) = fatty onboard for a low cost

ill add more when i feel like it

[Seth]

You should make an effort spelling the cards correctly and maybe use the card tags. People that don't know these cards can't look them up when they are misspelled.


narcomeabas(at least 3) + dread return + flamekin zealot + bridge from bellow(multiple in graveyard) = opponent is dead


They don't have to be Narcomoeba's, any creature can be sacked to dread return to return flamekin zealot. It's the dredge ability with Bridge from below that is the combo. The rest just uses the creatures the combo creates.


smoke stacks + crucible of worlds + armagedon = lock down (dont make smoke stacks more than 1)


the card is named Smokestack and why should you not add multiple soot counters? If it wrecks the other guy more then it wrecks you then that's fine right?


entomb + big creature (eleshnorn, sun titan or other) = scoop


why is putting a big creature in your yard with entomb a combo? It doesn't really do much from the yard. Even with Reanimate/Animate dead and simular it's not like it's game over. People play swords to plowshares and path to exile to take care of such problems as of turn 1.

[mtglord]

Oops I forgot to add exhume to the tomb combo. And with stax I like to use Armageddon first then stax for a lock down. As far as the dredge combo goes I just gave an ideal/simplified situation. Oh and sorry for the spelling mistakes and I'm at school so I can't link cards.

[Seras]

stax as in the deck?

[mtglord]

Yes it's the name of the deck that uses that lockdown combo. Sadly it's past it's prime and no longer performs well at tournaments.

[Seras]

And with stax I like to use Armageddon first then stax for a lock down.

then I don't understand this sentence, was the second instance of 'stax' an error?

[mtglord]

The second stax was me being lazy...

[mtglord]

infernal tutor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=107308) + lion's eye diamond (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3255)
cast the tutor crack led(lions eye diamond) on the stack then search your library for whatever you want and have mana to cast it. popular combo for storm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=45842) based decks

[mtglord]

merrow reejerey (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139702) + aether vial (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=212630)
play a merfolk using vial then cast one with lands untap vial play another merfolk with vial

[mtglord]

also cleaned up some of my previous posts and added card links to the gatherer. hope it helps, enjoy.

[racky54]

Liquimental Coating a land and Splinter it
Teferi's Puzzle Box, Thought Reflection, and Sturmgeist
Myr Matrix and Mana Echoes