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Old 08-17-2010, 02:08 AM
Temiller Temiller is offline
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Default A few ruling issues?

Hi, I'm still a little new a mtg, and some of the rulings I see in game play make no sense to me so I would like to get a few outside opinions.

1) I used my dawnglare invokers ability (pay 8: target opponent taps all of their creatures) on my opponent, he tapped his creatures then paid an island and swamp (I can't remember the card name of the card, but the activated ability of his creature was to destroy target creature) and destroyed my dawnglare invoker then untapped his creatures. I argued that if tapping his creatures would stop them from attacking, how could they use the creature use the activated ability. And since it was an ability, wouldn't he be required to keep his creatures tapped unless he did something to reverse the ability?

2) My opponent attacked with a 5/5 creature. I tapped 5 mana, then used my vengeful archon (pay x: prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to you this turn. If damage is prevented this way, vengeful archon deals that much damage to target player.) to stop damage and have the damage redirected at him. My opponent then unsummoned the vengeful archon, and said that since he unsummoned my creature, I had to take the damage or block with a different creature. I see this particular opponent unsummoning or trying to remove the creature from the battlefield after I declare attacks or blocking. I'm not really sure if that was possible or not. I think he would have still had to taken the damage from my vengeful archon even if he did unsummon him.

And lastly 3) I casted my Iona, Sheild of Emeria, and chose blue. (Iona, sheild of emeria - as Iona, Sheild of Emeria enters the battlefield, choose a color. Your opponents can cast spells of the chosen color) My opponent used a blue unsummon spell to unsummon Iona. He argued that as it was being laid out, its still a spell, and the effect of the creature doesn't come into play until after the creature goes from a spell to a creature. I'm not really sure if he's right or not. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:39 AM
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Danokozmo Danokozmo is offline
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Ok.

To answer your first question, we need a little more info.

If he let it resolve before he played the spell to destroy your creature, his creatures would still be tapped.

However, if he played the spell as a response to your activation, your creature would be destroyed and his creatures would not become tapped.

Question two i'm a little unsure about, so i'll move on to question 3.

You cannot cast unsummon on Iona because Iona has to be in play to unsummon here. And when she comes into play, you named blue. Unsummon is a blue spell and therefore cannot be played.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:17 AM
Temiller Temiller is offline
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I paid the 8 mana, then used the ability. As he's tapping his creatures, he gets to the one that can "Destroy Target Creature". He taps the creature along with the Island and the Swamp, and destroys my Dawnglare Invoker. Then untaps all of his creatures because my Dawnglare Invoker was destroyed and said that the ability couldn't have been used.

For the second question, The Vengeful Archon essentially redirects as much mana as you tap. I tapped the mana, redirected it at him, then he unsummoned my vengeful archon, and then said the damage still gets sent at me.

And I remembered he used Unsummon once on my Iona, and then used "Counter Target Spell" on my other two Ionas I tried to lay (arguing that an instant can still be used). Like I said, I figured once the color is said, its from that point on until Iona gets destroyed that the opponents cant cast any spells of that color.

I typed all of that on my iphone between games so its not surprising if its a little weird to read.
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:03 AM
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Seras Seras is offline
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for question 2: if he bounces the creature after it's activated it's ability, then the ability is already on the stack, it will resolve unless countered whether the creature is still in play or not
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Old 08-17-2010, 06:11 AM
KuroRyuuD KuroRyuuD is offline
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About 3rd.
Unsummon works only on creature permanents, not spells, so it can only return a creature to it`s owners hand when the creature is already in play, not on the stack anymore. He can use counterspells as long as Iona is on stack, for her ability takes effect only when she`s in play.

1st.
After you forced him to tap all his creatures, he paid an activated ability cost, i assume if the activated ability required to tap the creature, after your ability has already been resolved, then it can`t be used. If the destroy ability doesn't require to tap the creature, after your ability has resolved, the opponent can use it to destroy your Invoker, but the effect of your Invoker will still take place. If he used the activated ability before your ability resolves, then he doesn't tap his creatures.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:41 PM
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Danokozmo Danokozmo is offline
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Countering Iona is completely legal, because Iona has not entered play yet, therefore, here ability has not activated(and no, it is not an activated ability, activated seemed to be the right word.)
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Old 08-20-2010, 05:05 AM
Temiller Temiller is offline
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Thanks guys, That'll really help out.

A few more questions if you guys don't mind.

When playing Two headed Giant, If I play a Leyline of Sanctity, will it provide protection for the team, or just for me. We really couldn't come to a judgement on it. It has the word "You" in it, so I'm assuming it means for just me and not the team, but others say when playing two headed giant, You equals both players on the team.

And this question is pretty stupid I think, but I'm not quite sure. If my opponent hits me with, lets say, and 11/11, and I have a Vengeful Archon out with 5 mana untapped. If I tap the mana, have Vengeful Archon deal 5 damage to my opponent, do I block/take the other 6 attacking points, or does it go away?
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:01 AM
KuroRyuuD KuroRyuuD is offline
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2nd,
If you tap 5 mana to pay the archon's ability cost, it prevents 5 damage that would be dealt to you, so you recieve 6 damage after the prevention, if you choose not to block this creature. If you do block it - archons ability takes no effect if the 11/11 does not have trample. It becomes blocked by the archon or another creature.
If the 11/11 has trample and you pay 5 mana to prevent 5 damage, you may declare archon as a blocker, for it will absorb 7 damage and the rest (4 damage) will go after you, but you have prevented 5, so you recieve no damage at all.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:32 PM
brianmartin192 brianmartin192 is offline
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Default You play with cheaters

Most of your questions can be cleared up with one simple rule of thumb.

If you've paid the cost, the ability or spell goes on the stack and will resolve in some way unless countered directly.

Question 1
You paid the cost (8) so the "tap all creatures opponent controls" is on the stack. In response your opponent can and should use all tap/cost abilities (instants) for creatures he is able to. Those "in response" actions happen before your "tap all creatures opponent controls", but the "tap all creatures" still happens. Event list:
- You pay 8 put "tap all creatures opponent controls" on the stack
- In response your Opponent pays/taps to "destroy your creature" goes on the stack.
- you don't respond (b/c you had nothing to respond with).
- your creature gets destroyed removing "destroy creature from the stack"
- all his creatures then tap removing "tap all creatures opponent controls" from the stack.
Killing your creature does not remove the "tap all creatures" from the stack... and thus.. Your opponent cheated or was mistaken. He should have thought about destroying your creature before the turn.

Question 2
Same issue here. You paid the cost it still evaluates, but after he destroys your card. Event list:
- He attacks with 5/5
- You declare no blockers, but use the archon "damage redirect" ability. "damage redirection" is added to the stack.
- In response, your opponent "unsummons" your archon. "unsummon" is added to the stack.
- You do nothing in response.
- "unsummon" resolves and returns archon to your hand.
- "damage redirect" resolves and you deal 5 damage to your opponent.
Killing your creature does not remove "damage redirect" from the stack... and thus... Your opponent cheated or was mistaken. He should have thought about unsummoning your archon before the turn.

Question 3
This one is a different answer, but you can't "unsummon" a creature that has not been summoned. You can "counter" it, but not unsummon it. There is no Opportunity in this scenario where your opponent can unsummon Iona given that you chose blue.... and thus... Your opponent cheated or was mistaken.

I would not play with this person anymore or without a judge.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:54 PM
brianmartin192 brianmartin192 is offline
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Default 4th Question is a good one and I need an answer too.

I just noticed your 4th question and I would also like the answer.

In two headed giant can Vengeful Archon be used to prevent directed (not global or "all-player") damage to the team?

Vengeful Archon
7/7 flying
{X}: Prevent the next X damage that would be dealt to you this turn. If damage is prevented this way, Vengeful Archon deals that much damage to target player.

To my understanding the attacking team chooses which player receives combat damage (and all other forms of targeted damage for that matter). Thus after I play my Vengeful Archon my Opponents will always choose to have any directed damage be dealt to my teammate rather than me (excluding other game effects).

Is this correct?

Clearly in two headed giant the "prevent damage" will work against "damage to all players/opponents" and in cases where damage can be shifted to me, but it seems as though the ability becomes very limited in two headed giant.
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